YK
THE MAIN THEME OF THIS ISSUE IS "FREEDOM SCHOOL". DAVID PICKED UP COCONOGACCO ALONG THE MAIN THEME. PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT COCONOGACCO.

YY
OUR SCHOOL STARTED WITH ONLY 25 STUDENTS IN 2008 AND ESTABLISHED CO&CO.LTD. IN 2016. OUR MAIN AIM IS TO DEVELOP YOUNG DESIGNERS WHO CAN SUCCEED AROUND THE WORLD. WE THINK ABOUT THE ESSENCE OF FASHION LIKE "WHAT IS FASHION?" "COCO" HAS VARIOUS TYPES OF MEANING SUCH AS "INDIVIDUALLY" AND "THE PLACE THAT YOU TAKE A POSITION.
IN THE BEGINNING, EVERYONE IN THE FASHION INDUSTRY COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE WERE DOING. HOWEVER, OUR STUDENT WAS THE FIRST TO WIN THE ITS PRIZE AS JAPANESE STUDENT IN 2010. AFTER THAT YEAR, OUR STUDENTS HAVE PARTICIPATED IN INTERNATIONAL PRIZES AND BOTH JAPANESE AND THE INTERNATIONAL FASHION INDUSTRY HAVE BEEN KEEN ON US. IN JAPAN, WE HAVE PRESENTED INSTALLATION SHOWS AND EXHIBITIONS IN SHIBUYA PARCO MUSEUM AND THE NATIONAL ART CENTER. AFTER THESE EVENTS, PEOPLE GRADUALLY UNDERSTOOD OUR AIM AND MANY GRADUATING STUDENTS HAVE GAINED INTERNATIONAL JOBS AND PRIZES. IN 2016, WE COLLABORATED WITH CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS, THE FIRST TIME FOR A JAPANESE FASHION COURSE.

CS 
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE DOING IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THE SCHOOL (LAUGHS).

YY
EVERYONE SAID SO. WE AIM TO GROW STUDENTS WHO CAN WORK IN VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE INDUSTRY, FROM FASHION DESIGN BASED ON THOUGHTS OF BAUHAUS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE JAPANESE FASHION COLLEGE SETSU MODE SEMINAR IS CALLED THE LEGENDARY FREE SCHOOL BECAUSE STUDENTS FROM A WIDE RANGE OF GENRE CAME OUT FROM THE INSTITUTION, SUCH AS REI KAWAKUBO, YOHJI YAMAMOTO, TAKASHI HOMMA, KIKI KIRIN AND KEIGO OYAMADA, ETC. OUR SCHOOL WANTS TO BE LIKE SETSU MODE SEMINAR.

CS
WHY WAS THE SCHOOL [SETSU MODE SEMINAR] CLOSED RECENTLY?

YY
THE SCHOOL'S FORCE HAS BEEN LOST SINCE SETSU DIED. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT REI KAWAKUBO AND YOHJI YAMAMOTO WENT TO THAT SCHOOL.

CS
THAT MUST NOT BE HAPPENING NOW (LAUGHS).

YY
BUT IT MEANS THAT THIS SCHOOL HAD CHARISMA. BASED ON THIS STYLE, WE HAVE INVITED TEACHERS FROM A VARIETY OF INDUSTRY SUCH AS TATSURU UCHIDA, SHINICHI NAKAZAWA, AND ALSO, CHIKASHI SUZUKI. AS I SAID BEFORE, OUR STUDENTS HAVE SHOWED IN OTHER COUNTRIES AND IN THE UK, WE HAVE SHOWED INSTALLATION AT THE INTERNATIONAL SHOWCASE AND WON THE CURATING PRIZE. ALSO, MOST JAPANESE STUDENTS IN CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS GRADUATED FROM OUR SCHOOL.

CS
DO THEY GO TO CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS WITH THE BASIC SKILLS?

YY
MOST STUDENTS DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THEIR PORTFOLIO, SO WE TEACH IT IN THE PRIMARY COURSE BEFORE THEY GO THERE.ALSO, WE MIX THE INTERNATIONAL IDEAS SUCH AS JOHN GALLIANO, EX-DIRECTOR, AN EX-TEXTILE TEACHER OF PARSONS UNIVERSITY, AND AN ARCHITECTURE UNIVERSITY IN SOUTH CAROLINA. THIS AUGUST, WE HAVE COLLABORATED WITH SHOBU GAKUEN IN TOKYO MUSEUM.

CS
I LIKED WATARU TOMINAGA WHO WON THE HYERES PRIZE IN 2015. WHAT IS HE DOING NOW?

YY
HE IS CREATING HIS CLOTHES FOR NEXT SHOW IN CHANEL STUDIO BY CHANEL, WITH SUPPORT OF THE HYERES PRIZE. AFTER THE SHOW, HE WILL COLLABORATE WITH PETIT BATEAU, SO HE WILL BE IN PARIS FOR A WHILE. OTHER GRADUATED STUDENTS ALSO WORK FOR COMME DES GARCONS, AND THE DESIGN TEAM FOR YVES SAINT LAURENT AS THE ONLY JAPANESE.

YK
WHY DO YOU THINK COCONOGACCO STUDENTS CAN WORK AROUND THE WORLD?

CS
COCONOGACCO IS LIKE A COMPETENT TENNIS SCHOOL IN TERMS OF TEACHING. THEY TEACH STUDENTS TO USE BOTH INSTINCT AND KNOWLEDGE. I THINK THE SKETCH COURSE WORKS VERY WELL. IT MEANS THAT THEY HAVE AN OBJECTIVE THINKING THAT IS THE SAME AS PRACTICE. THIS EDUCATION IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE USUAL JAPANESE ART AND FASHION UNIVERSITY.

YK
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR JAPANESE UNIVERSITY TO TEACH ONLY SKILL.

CS
YES. THEY DON'T TEACH HOW THE SKILL CAN BE USED FOR A SITUATION. THAT'S WHY JAPANESE PEOPLE CAN BE GOOD GEARING TO WORK FOR A BIG COMPANY, BUT INDIVIDUALLY ARE SO WEAK. I WAS REALLY SURPRISED THAT COCONOGACCO HAS DEVELOPED SINCE THE BEGINNING.

YY
I WANT TO MAKE A FASHION INSTITUTION IN A NATIONAL UNIVERSITY LIKE ANTWERP AND THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF ART, BUT I THINK THAT FASHION IS STILL IN A LOWER POSITION IN JAPAN. IF JAPANESE FAMOUS DESIGNERS MOVE TO FOCUS ON DEVELOPING UP-AND-COMING TALENT, THE WHOLE EDUCATION SYSTEM WILL BE CHANGED. HOWEVER, OFF COURSE THEY WON'T CARE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO MAKE A NEW TALENTED RIVAL, SO THEY BELONG WITH NEW BRANDS AS NEW FOLLOWERS OF THEM. YOUNG DESIGNERS LINE UP UNDER THE SAME HOUSE OF BIG FASHION BRANDS. THIS WAY, THEY CAN KEEP THEIR POSITION AS UPWARD COMPATIBILITY FOREVER.

YK
THEY CAN KEEP THEIR OWN STYLE, BUT THEY ALSO CONNECT WITH THE NEW GENERATION THROUGH NEW BRANDS.

CS
UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD FOR YOUNG DESIGNERS TO SUCCEED WITH THE SAME LEVEL OF JAPANESE FAMOUS BRANDS, SO THEY SHOULD WORK AROUND THE WORLD WITHOUT THE JAPANESE FASHION SYSTEM. ALTHOUGH JAPANESE STUDENTS HAVE TRIED TO GO TO THE INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY, IT WAS REALLY HARD TO ENTER INTO BECAUSE NOBODY MAKES THEIR OWN PORTFOLIO IN HIGH SCHOOL, AND KNOW HOW OUR THINKING HAS A HUGE GAP WITH OTHERS. IN THIS SITUATION, COCONOGACCO EDUCATES THE BASIC LEVEL WITH THE INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY TO ENCOURAGE A NEW WAY OF THINKING. THEY MEET THE STANDARD OF OTHER COUNTRY'S THINKING ONCE AND THEN FIND THEIR IDENTITY AND CONCEPT AS JAPANESE. THEN THEY CAN SEE SOMETHING FROM BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND JAPANESE WAYS OF THINKING TO PICK UP BOTH GOOD POINTS. IN JAPANESE UNIVERSITIES, THEY CAN ONLY SEE SOMETHING FROM JAPANESE WAYS, SO THEIR CONCEPT CANNOT EXPRESS TO OTHERS. COCONOGACCO STUDENTS CAN MIX BOTH WAYS OF THINKING AND FIND THEIR OWN JAPANESE CULTURE.

YY
I THINK FASHION EDUCATION HAS A MORE, OLD STYLE OF HIERARCHY THAN IN THE INDUSTRY, SO EVERYONE IS KEEN ON US BECAUSE WE ARE A COMPLETELY OPPOSITE STYLE OF EDUCATION.

YK
WERE THESE IDEAS MOTIVATION TO START COCONOGACCO?

YY
THE REASON THAT I STARTED MY SCHOOL IS FROM MY EXPERIENCE. I WENT TO A JAPANESE FASHION SCHOOL FOR A YEAR AND QUIT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T FIT WITH ME. THEN I MOVED TO CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS AND MY TEACHER APPRAISED ME. I DOUBTED WHY THESE TWO SCHOOLS' APPRAISALS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. BY THIS QUESTION, MY CURIOSITY WAS ABOUT THE GLOBAL FASHION EDUCATION, SO I WENT TO PARIS, ANTWERP, ITALY AND NETHERLANDS ETC., TO COLLECT INFORMATION ON HOW EACH SCHOOL IS TAUGHT. THEN, I GRADUALLY KNOW EACH SCHOOL'S CHARACTERISTICS AND HOW BOTH JAPANESE AND OTHER EDUCATIONS OPERATE.
AFTER COMING BACK TO JAPAN, I WAS SOMETIMES INVITED FROM JAPANESE FASHION COLLEGE'S, TO TALK ABOUT FASHION AND CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS. I COULD INSPIRE STUDENTS, BUT REALISED THAT I COULDN'T CHANGE THE EXISTING SYSTEM. THEN I MADE A NEW SYSTEM BY MYSELF, WITH MY EXPERIENCE. MY CURIOSITY FOR EDUCATION WORKED FOR IT. I DIDN'T WANT TO BRING CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS TO A JAPANESE SYSTEM, SO I PICKED UP BOTH GOOD POINTS OF JAPANESE AND CENTRAL SAINT MARTINS FOR COCONOGACCO.

CS
I THINK THAT COCONOGACCO WANTS TO KEEP THE INTERESTING PART OF JAPAN - NOT TO CHANGE ALL THINGS WITH A EUROPEAN EDUCATION MODEL, SO IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE SCHOOL, THE STYLE OF COCONOGACCO STUDENTS WAS MORE A SUBCULTURE. AT THE SAME TIME, THE HIGH FASHION BRANDS HAVE BEEN INFLUENCED BY JAPANESE SUBCULTURE LIKE VIKTOR&ROLF GOTHIC LOLITA SEASON. I THINK IT WASN'T JUST AN ACCIDENT. COCONOGACCO'S STUDENTS KNEW HOW TO EXPRESS THEIR COLLECTION WITH JAPANESE CULTURE TO OTHER COUNTRIES. EVEN IF THE RECENT STUDENTS OF COCONOGACCO HAVE CHANGED, THEIR CHARACTERISTIC IS STRONG. I THINK AS AN ARTIST - JOSEPH BEUYS SAID, GATHERING PEOPLE MAKES A COLLEGE. IT'S REALLY A SIMPLE STATEMENT, BUT SIMILAR TO COCONOGACCO. VARIOUS TYPES OF PEOPLE GATHER AND DISCUSS MATTER; IT IS THE PLACE OF EDUCATION. I THINK FREE SCHOOL IS THE PLACE THAT DISTILLS POSITIVE POINTS FROM MANY KINDS OF THINGS.
IN JAPAN, ONLY THE TEACHER TALKS, SO ALL STUDENTS HAVE THE SAME WAY OF THINKING AS THEIR TEACHER, BUT IN COCONOGACCO, THE WAY OF THINKING IS REALLY DIFFERENT FOR EACH STUDENT.

YY
IT IS THE IDEAL METHOD FOR ME. ALTHOUGH I INFLUENCE STUDENTS BECAUSE I TEACH THEM, I TRY NOT TO MAKE ALL STUDENTS THE SAME. THAT'S WHY I INVITE GUEST TEACHERS AND MIX THEIR IDEAS. ALSO, STUDENTS SOMETIMES BECOME THE TEACHER INSTEAD OF ME TO DISCUSS THEIR WORKS WITH OTHER STUDENTS. THIS DISCUSSION MAKES THEM PRACTICE THEIR CRITICAL WAY OF SEEING. THEY CAN HAVE OBJECTIVITY FOR THEMSELVES.
I THINK WESTERN AND EUROPEAN EDUCATION ARE BASED ON CHRISTIANITY AND IT IS SAME AS THE CONCEPT OF THE ART UNIVERSITY. EVEN IF WE ARE INFLUENCED BY THIS CONCEPT, OUR BASE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I MEAN THAT CHRISTIANITY IS UNQUESTIONING, HOWEVER, BUDDHA HAS AN OPPOSITE CONCEPT THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE UNQUESTIONING, SO I THINK OUR UNDERLYING CONCEPT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THEREFORE, I THINK THE BUDDHA CONCEPT FITS FASHION AS BOTH ARE IN FLUX. I THINK WE CAN LEARN MUCH ABOUT FASHION IN JAPAN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THOSE CONCEPTS.

CS
JAPAN HAS BASICALLY, NATURAL ACCIDENTS AND EARTHQUAKES, SO WE BUILD THE HOUSE THAT CAN BE RE-CREATED EVEN IF EUROPE BUILD WITH STONE. THAT'S WHY WE DON'T BELIEVE THE UNQUESTIONING CONCEPT AND CAN BE ACCEPTED BY WHATEVER HAPPENED. AS FASHION BRANDS, IT'S REALLY WEAK IF THEY ARE ONLY IN FLUX, HOWEVER THE RECENT FASHION BRANDS DISAPPEAR AFTER 10 YEARS WHILE CHANEL STAYS FOR 100 YEARS. IF THEY BECOME FAMOUS OVERNIGHT, CONTINUANCE IS MOST IMPORTANT FOR ALL FASHION BRANDS. I THINK ESTABLISHED FASHION BRANDS HAVE BOTH INFLUX AND THEIR OWN IDENTITY. FOR THE RECENT FASHION SCENE, IT SEEMS TO BE IMPORTANT TO MAKE A NEW TREND, HOWEVER IT COULD BE CHANGED. THE IDEAL FASHION BRAND CAN CHANGE WITH THE SOCIETY, BUT THEY HAVE A STABLE AXIS. THAT IS A FASHION BRAND.

YK
WHEN I USED TO LIVE IN LONDON, LONDON FASHION BRANDS CAME OUT. YOUNG DESIGNERS SUCH AS J.W. ANDERSON, SIMONE ROCHA AND CRAIG GREEN. I THINK THEY OF COURSE BECAME POPULAR FASTER. I RESPECT PEOPLE AROUND THE BRANDS BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT IT THROUGH BUSINESS AND PROMOTION. AFTER THESE BRANDS CAME OUT, THE CHARACTERISTIC OF LONDON FASHION WEEK IS OUTSTANDING WITH YOUNG DESIGNERS. ON THE OTHER HAND, I THOUGHT YOUNG FASHION BRANDS CAN'T BE INDEPENDENT WITHOUT EVERY SUPPORTING SYSTEM.

CS
I FEEL JAPAN DOESN'T THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO GROW DESIGNERS AFTER THEY HAVE GRADUATED OR BECOME FAMOUS. THE JAPANESE FORGET INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. FOR EXAMPLE, I DON'T MIND THAT A PRODUCT WITH 500YEN IS SOLD WITH 1000YEN, BUT THE JAPANESE PLACE PRIORITY ON ADDED-VALUE LIKE DESIGN. OF COURSE, JAPANESE PRODUCTS ARE GOOD QUALITY, SO THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT DESIGN TO ADD MORE VALUE. THAT'S WHY UNIVERSALITY OF DESIGN IS WEAK IN JAPAN. FOR EXAMPLE, CHANEL TWEED IS UNIVERSALITY.
IF A DESIGNER COPIES A DESIGN, SOMEONE HAS TO CRITICISE IT AND PROTECT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN. HOWEVER, JAPANESE SELL THE COPY PRODUCTS AND DON'T CARE TO PROTECT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WILL BE CONSUMED AS A TREND. FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE COPIES YOSHIKAZU'S DESIGN THAT ISN'T MAJOR FAMOUS, THE COPY WILL BE OVERRUN AND THE ORIGINAL TALENT WILL BE DEAD. I THINK THE JAPANESE FASHION INDUSTRY DOESN'T PROTECT JAPANESE FASHION DESIGNERS ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE THEIR OWN TALENT.

YY
I THINK SO. FAMOUS DESIGNERS HAVE GROWN WELL SINCE THEY WERE STUDENTS, ESPECIALLY EUROPEAN DESIGNERS. I THINK IT'S HAPPENED BY THEIR ENVIRONMENT.

CS
DEMMA AS VETEMENTS / BALENCIAGA DESIGNER IS THE SAME GRADE WITH MIKIO SAKABE AND OTHER JAPANESE DESIGNERS WHO GRADUATED FROM ANTWERP.

YY
I FEEL THE EUROPEAN FASHION SYSTEM CAN DISTINGUISH BETWEEN ORIGINAL AND COPY AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ESTABLISHED LUXURY FASHION INSTITUTION.

CS
I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE LUXURY FASHION INSTITUTIONS IS GREAT BECAUSE THE LEADER HAS A GOOD EDUCATION. HE HAS DINNER IN EACH FASHION CITY AND CARES TO SUPPORT THE DESIGNERS IN THOSE CITIES. THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE, HE TRIES TO KNOW EACH NATIONAL IDENTITY AND EACH LUXURY BRAND - NOT JUST TO INCLUDE LUXURY BRANDS.
THIS INSTITUTION HAS NOT ONLY FASHION BUT ALSO LUXURY PRODUCTS LIKE WATCHES AND LUGGAGE. HE CAN PUT THE ADDED-VALUE ON THESE PRODUCTS SO THEY CAN MAKE COLLABORATION WITH LUXURY FASHION BRANDS. THIS COLLABORATION WILL BE A WIN-WIN BETWEEN PRODUCTS AND FASHION BRANDS BECAUSE BOTH CAN MAKE BIG NEWS. HE DOESN'T RELY ON ONE FAMOUS BRAND, SO HE CAN DO GOOD BUSINESS TO GROW BOTH FASHION BRANDS AND PRODUCTS. THAT'S WHY EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT. SOME ESTABLISHED BRANDS ARE NOT DOING WELL RECENTLY, BUT HE SUPPORTS THEM TO COLLABORATE WITH OTHER PRODUCTS AND BRANDS THAT INVOLVE THE SAME AGENCY.

YK
THEY CAN CONTROL AND DECIDE THE POSITION OF EACH BRAND LIKE EACH PIECE ON A CHESS BOARD.

CS
YES. ALL BRANDS CAN BE FAMOUS AND DESIGNERS CAN DEVELOP. BOTH PRODUCTS AND FASHION BRANDS WILL RELATE WITH A WIN-WIN IN HIS GROUP.

YK
AS YOU SAID BEFORE, IF THE JAPANESE FASHION INDUSTRY DOESN'T WORK FOR DEVELOPING YOUNG DESIGNERS, SHOULD THEY ENTER INTO THE INTERNATIONAL FASHION COMMUNITY?

YY
I REALISED THAT ALL STUDENTS CAN GO THROUGH THE FASHION COMPETITION WHEN I USED TO LIVE IN LONDON, AND SEE MY STUDENTS. HOWEVER, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO RE-ENTER INTO YOUR LOCAL SOCIETY AFTER THESE COMPETITIONS. IT WAS THE SAME FOR ME.

CS
THE DESIGNERS CAN'T GET SOME SUPPORT WITHOUT THE LOCAL SOCIETY. IT IS ORGANIC.

YY
THAT'S WHY WE CAN WIN PRIZES TO MAKE GOOD PRODUCTS AND EXPRESSION. HOWEVER, AFTER THAT, THERE ARE A LOT OF TASKS TO MAKE A LOCAL COMMUNITY AND GOOD COMMUNICATION. I THINK EVEN IF MY STUDENTS GO TO STUDY ABROAD, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO STEP UP TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

CS
I THINK WE CAN'T TEACH THESE THINGS IN THE SCHOOL. TO BE HONEST, I'M NOT ORIGINALLY A PARTY PERSON, BUT IF I GO TO DINNER WITH LOCAL FASHION INDUSTRY PEOPLE, THAT WILL CREATE A HAPPENING FOR A JOB. I FEEL IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET INTO THE PARIS FASHION SCENE.

YY
I ALSO FEEL LIKE THAT. PARIS HAS PROTECTED THEIR COMMUNITY BY THEMSELVES. I WAS REALLY SURPRISED THAT IF I KNEW ONE PERSON BASED IN PARIS, IT WILL SPREAD OVER MANY PEOPLE AND PLACES AT ONCE.

CS
IT'S KIND OF SIMILAR TO KYOTO. GEISYA HOUSE'S ETHOS IS LIKE "FIRST TIME CUSTOMERS IS NOT ALLOWED." IN PARIS, PEOPLE ALSO HAVE A KEEN, DISCERNING EYE FOR BEAUTY.




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